Deepak
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 13
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Reply with quote | #1 |
We need to believe atleast to comfort ourselves. What else can comfort us? |
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Brian
Moderator
Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 10
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Comfort...yes, we all need a pleasant place to rest -- body, mind, and spirit. But the question is, can an imaginary comfort provide the same benefit as a real comfort?
Plotinus, a Greek philosopher, observed (correctly) that there's a big difference between actually having sex with a lover, and believing or thinking that you're having sex with him or her.
What we want, he said, is the real thing. Not a substitute. So this is my problem with religion as a comfort. It offers ideas about how wonderful things will be one day in heaven, nirvana, enlightenment, buddha-nature, wherever.
Sure, an idea of a coming pleasure can feel pleasurable. Anticipation carries with it a hint of the reality. But it also can prevent us from fully throwing ourselves into the actual act that we've been anticipating. "One day..." leads to another. And another.
Heaven always waits. And waits.
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Deepak
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 13
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Reply with quote | #3 |
THe point is that if we give way to despair it affect our mental health. That is why the clinging to hopes, even if it is false. Indeed, it is our clinging which prevents our real nature, as it is said by the sacred texts. But then again usually, there is a lot of darkness before dawn. |
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obed
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 28
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Zack
Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 1
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Reply with quote | #5 |
I have had friends discuss this same idea with me. When they found out I was a non-believer they would say something along the lines of "That must be so depressing." In reality, it isn't depressing for me at all. In fact, the idea of wasting so much of the short time we have in life trying to worship and impress an imaginary being, so you can be transported to an imaginary land when you die, is quite sad to me.
The fact is, there is no valid reason to believe that god exists. No proof or even strong evidence to suggest that god actually exists has ever been found (to my knowledge). Some people have said to me that this is how God wants it. He doesn't want it to be clear that he exists, because then it would not require people to have faith in order to believe. This is what people have told me when I have asked, "If god exists, why doesn't he just do something totally obvious and clear to tell us all that we must believe in him in order to get to heaven, instead of sending extremely cryptic messages in an ancient book?" This is a disturbing idea to me. The idea that a god would screw with people in such a way, and punish them for thinking rationally and analyzing the world they live in, is unimaginable to me. If this is in fact the case, that god is toying with us and trying to see if we are willing to put aside logic and believe in him blindly, then I don't care. I don't want to go to heaven and hang out with a jerk like that anyway. |
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ET
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #6 |
I agree that no proof exist that god exist. Nor is there proof that he does not exist. So why do we have to decide one way or another?
Also, why do we have to believe that if he does exist he is involved in what is going on here on our planet? Perhaps he is just a force, like gravity.
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poohbear
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 4
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Reply with quote | #7 |
There are two useful words in our language that seem to cover this bit of discussion :
Gnosis - Mystical knowledge
Agnostic - A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known, of the existence or nature of God. I think there may have been a lot of futile discussion about the existence of God for thousands of years, but I still keep my options open for the possibility of mystical knowledge outside of the everyday intellectual machine.
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ET
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Yes and I think the word mystery is also applicable: mystery - not understood, or eludes understanding Like a good mystery novel we all continue to puzzle over who done it. 
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MusicLuvah1981
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 2
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Zach, Maybe a rephrasing of the question of "What is God? Does s/he exist?" to "What is Life? How do I know it exists?". I had a personal nausea towards any mention of "God" when I first started out after personally renouncing Christianity due to a scandal. After some personal searching for "what is life" "who am I" and reading about non-duality, mysticism (non-dualism), etc. it's opened my eyes to the ESSENCE of all religion - which really is the same, just interpreted differently by cultures/time/dogma.
As to clinging to religion to keep one from depression or dispair - I believe it only hinders ones personal goal of true happiness. Not necessarily the religion itself but the intent of what it is being used for. That purpose results in delusion and imprisonment to that belief.
However, if that belief can lead one to transcend beyond all beliefs, to look within, to probe relentlessly until one understands the true nature of Self/God/Reality/Etc. Once that realization has taken place what use is the belief? It has served it's purpose. This is like a crutch being used to help a leg heal then discarded once it has met it's purpose, such is the use of religion/belief systems in my opinion.
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